Initial Thoughts on Delving Deeper

I've been interested in Delving Deeper since about 2011, but just finally got my hands on the free pdf's from RPGNOW a few days ago.

After reading these rules, I would definitely try to purchase a boxed set of these rules.  I wanted to do that for Swords and Wizardry Whitebox but missed my chance completely...  I'm busy enough that I'm late to almost every party...

Anyway, it's another take on the original 1974 rules, and while I don't have a copy of these rules, I have read them a couple times.  My buddy has a set in his cedar chest, so I may go pull them out sometime and compare.  Things that caught my eye:

1.  They added in the thief class!  I'd like to see some method for advancing thief skills if you are gong to bring these into the game, but that would be easily added.

2.  The con based survival roll.  I'm pretty sure this was in the original game rules.   I missed it in the S&W white box rules system.  I think I will be adding it as a house rule to my FR game.  I also like to make each raise dead lower a PC's CON score by 1, sort of a raise dead downward spiral.  Only a wish or equivalent magical power can bring back this lost CON.

3.   They brought in some of the Dave Arneson GONZO factor.  Robots, androids, cyborgs... etc...  while this wasn't always my cup of tea, I kinda like the gonzo factor added in some campaigns.  It was why at the end of the Castle Amber adventure I was running under B/X I added in some mutant albino orcs, and their leader was carrying a Winchester 30/30 rifle.  Hey, they were stuck in a pocket dimension  Steven Amber created, so i threw in all sorts of stuff from lots of different genres as if this pocket dimension was "collecting" things from many different realities.

4.  Love the spell lists, the descriptions, and how they organized the spells Cleric Level 1 all on 1 page, then Level 2, all on one page.  Finding spells would be easier with this edition, saving time.  Characters could even print out the pages with the spells they can cast, so we don't have to search around.

Things I didn't like:

1.  I don't really like the 1d6 for all weapons approach,  I like some variation between weapons.  I understand that D&D combat is extremely abstract and not supposed to be a simulation extactly, but I think this is more of a holdover from Chainmail (although I've only read through those rules once or twice in my teens, so my memory of that isn't perfect).  I actually like the BX weapons tables, just enough weapon variation in damage for me.

2.  All movements are listed in inches?  What the heck does that mean?  Maybe they are assuming you will use mini's or maybe you are supposed to reference chainmail?

3.  Very little around combat times, how long is a round?   Rules for hex based movement are pretty sketchy.

I read through VERY quickly, so maybe all this stuff was in there.  I also get that they were trying to cling as much as possible to the original edition.  Everything I didn't like about these rules are quickly fixed.

In summary, a lot to love, leaving me with some things to think about.  What would my D&D mine look like?

Over the last 4 years I've gone back and played almost all the editions of D&D that were made.  I've played:  ODD, BX D&D (with stuff from rules Cyclopedia added in), 2nd edition AD&D (with stuff from 1e added in), 3rd edition, and finally Castles and Crusades.

Looking back through these different games I think I'm finding a trend:  I like lots of options for PC's added in, but I like shorter combat times (which mostly means lower HP).  I also like lower emphasis on stat bonuses from S&W/ODD vs. the BX, 2nd and 3rd edition, which have larger +/- based on stats.  I don't like skills, but I do like more abilities for characters as they progress through levels, so leveling up is more than another HD.

Ohhh boy, challenge accepted, its time to write up my own D&D mine!

Can you run a game w/ Tolkein Inspired Magic (and have fun?)

This post comes from reading these articles here, here, and here.

Basically in the world of Tolkien, magic is part of the world and was involved in its creation.  As the world became more "concrete" its ability to act in ways that don't seem to follow the laws of ordinary physics lessened.  Immortal magical beings: elves, spirits, the semi-angelic "wizzards" and the "gods" can interact with magic fairly easily.  However, these abilities have variable cost, and may take a split second to act, or could require years.  They move at the pace of the "plot" and don't fall nicely into an RPG system.

I've seen several decent attempts over the years to replicate this style of magic, but in each case... the results contain more quantifiable, and direct magic than what you would see in Tolkien's books.  In order to be easily used in an RPG, magic systems are typically quantifiable and contain in little packets of power with discrete costs associated. 

Examples of systems outside this typical stereotype are S. John Ross' Hedge magic system, which might work well in a Tolkien type universe.  Also, looser game systems like Risus or Fudge/FATE might be able to capture the spirit of tolkien magic due to their reliance on language instead of numbers.  I've often thought a game set in Middle Earth or a facsimile of that world could be fun, but I was never sure how to handle the magical elements.

Viking Swords and Dungeon Fantasy

I watched a really cool documentary on the Ulfberht viking swords.  It's on Netflix and I really enjoyed it.  I love watching this modern day smith recreating the methods of forming the blade and thinking about the trade routes from the middle east that brought this advanced alloy to the northern reaches of the world.

I've also picked up GURPS dungeon fantasy adventurers (the first one).  While I just started a campaign using the Swords and Wizardry Ruleset, I think I may pick up the GURPS 4e core books and try running this system for my next fantasy game.  One of my favorite sections of the adventures book was the equipment!  I really like the way you could add "attributes"to weapons ("Dwarven" "Fine", "balanced", mysterious alloys, etc...).   It really allows for great customization of weapons among a group of adventurers.  They also had other great non-magical but unique items for characters to spend loot on.

As a second edition AD&D DM I used to allow for "fine" crafted weapons to offer a +1 to either attack or damage, which could be lost on an attack roll of a 1 until you saw an expert weaponsmith to repair.  One of my players, started a game with a legendary crafted weapon +1 to both attack and damage (non magical) and then over time, converted that to a magical +1 to both, paying for enchantments with found magical items.  He then added some special abilities over time, and kept this singular weapon through the whole game up into the higher levels.

I really liked the idea of non-magical "special" equipment.  I've got to think of using some of this in a DnD game setting.  Maybe using some of it as loot.

Whitebox Snakemen

I love snakemen, serpent people, Yaunti, whatever you want to call them.  Maybe it is because I watched so much GI Joe as a kid.  Here is a workup I did for them for BX about 3 years ago now.  I'm bringing them into my whitebox forgotten realms game as a power group in the marsh area.  My idea involves them figuring out a way to switch minds with regular folks from Daggerford and infiltrate the town...

Snakemen

HD: 2-4

AC: 6[13]

Attacks: Weapon

Special: see below

Move:12

HDE/XP: 3-9 (300-1100) depends on abilities

Snakemen are the result of the interbreeding of men with serpents during the dawn of mankind. Forced underground by men and elves thousands of years ago they were brought to near extinction. In the dark they prayed to their serpentine god Shurresh (an aspect of Set) and plotted. In recent years they have come to the surface again taking political control of the city of Hlondeth and exerting an above ground presence in the dinosaur infested jungles of Chult. They are also trying to establish control in the dalelands and in the north surging upward from their vast underdark cities.

Most serpent people appear as humanoids with fine scales as skin, and a snake like cast over their faces. They appear dark brown with a greenish purple tint and their eyes are of rust, yellow, or copper. War bands of serpent people typically wear fine chain armor and wield short curved blades and bows. They can see in the dark out 90 feet.

Some bands of serpent people will have either a cleric of Shurresh (1-10th level) or a magic user (1-10th level). Additionally, all serpent people have a 50% chance of having mental abilities. Examples of abilities include a charm like ability to fool humans into believing them to be human (save vs. spell to avoid), or domination/summoning abilities over snakes, or ESP. Serpent people are friendly [friendly as in attempt to control and dominate to their own ends] with other serpent/lizard/draconian monsters such as nagas and kobolds.

It is rumored that the serpent people have spies all across Faerun. Men whisper aside fires at night that the serpent people steal babies, that female serpent women lure men down dark holes with enchanting songs, and that they torture and breed captive men in their dark cities producing more abominations. There are also rumors that in these cities there are many other twisted forms of snake/men abonminations. Some that are nearly all snakes or men with snakes for arms, etc... there is no proof if these rumors are true.

Whitebox Undead, Energy Drain

I've always hated Energy Drain.  Roleplaying as a youth, it ended up stripping our group of resources as we tried to afford Restoration Spells to get our "lost" EXP levels back.  The whole point of D&D is leveling up, and if you can just be hit a couple of times by a wraith and end up at level 1, I think that is a pretty silly mechanic.

The swords and wizardry whitebox rules really made turning undead powerful, so as long as you had a party cleric, it is unlikely that fighting most wraiths or even spectres was going to happen once the cleric gets a few levels under him.  However, I really nurfed the turning rules for my forgotten realms game.

So, I think I'm going to swap the normal level loss energy drain for constitution drain.

Wights: each hit deals 1d6 damage plus 1PT of CON drain.  If CON reaches 0, the character dies and becomes a wight minutes later.  All lost CON returns after 60 minutes.

Wraiths: each hit deals 1d6 damage plus 1PT of CON drain.  If CON reaches 0, the character dies and becomes a wight thrall of the wraith minutes later.  A single lost CON point returns every hour after the battle ends.

Spectre: each hit deals 1d6 damage plus 2PT of CON drain.  If CON reaches 0, the character dies and becomes a spectre thrall.  CON drain from a spectre returns at a rate of 1pt/day, but if drained over half then the character must make a successful CON check vs. their normal CON score or be permanently drained of 1pt of CON.  In this case the touch of the spectre leaves a permanent wound on the soul of the individual.

Vampire:  The bite of a vampire drains 2pts of CON/round.  If the vampire is also biting savagely the creature takes 1d6 damage, although the vampire can bite carefully to keep a charmed individual alive, taking their blood for weeks or years as sustenance. CON drain from a vampire returns at a rate of 1pt/hour, but if drained over half then the character must make a successful CON check vs. their normal CON score or be permanently drained of 1pt of CON.  This permanent CON drain may come with cosmetic changes in the characters appearance (white hair, weight loss, etc...).

The Good TPK?

I couldn't help feeling a bit bad when I killed all my PC's in our last face-to-face game.  We only get to game face-to-face twice a year, so killing them with 6 goblins seemed a bit harsh....

After thinking about it a bit I think it may have been the best way to start out our gaming with the Whitebox system.  The set up for the encounter found them watching goblins pelt some person who was hiding in a thicket of bushes.  Whoever it was passed out from injuries just as they arrived.  The goblins were singing songs and firing arrows down at the victim. 

My PC's were joking that maybe they shouldn't rescue anyone weak enough to be brought low by 6 weak goblins...  then they proceeded to be slaughtered by said goblins.

I think this encounter gave them perspective on the lethality of the system.  They aren't superman, they have no "feats" or superpowers.  They are just an "adventurer" with a bit more skill than the average guy.  I don't think I could have conveyed this to them verbally with the same emphasis that 6 goblins wiping them out did (that typically doesn't happen in newer editions).

We then moved right into making characters to play again.  I noticed a huge difference in how they approached it.  They just rolled 3d6 down the line and started picking class/race based on the stats.  They let the stats speak to them and started making up their descriptions and quick 2 sentence histories based on whim of the dice.  They focused on ranged attacks, stealth over blunt force, talked about choosing an elf to get some spells along with fighting.  Induction into the 0e gaming system by experience.

The good TPK?   Maybe...

ghosts of dragonspear castle

Man, I just got excited about a D&D product, and then I find out I can't get it...

Keep in mind this is the first D&D product made in the last decade or so that I've cared about (the last thing I purchased was the Greyhawk Gaz which was produced in 2000 - 13 years ago..)

The adventure is called Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle and it is really 4 adventures in 1, for $30.  I heard about it on some forum, and then googled it, looking to buy it, and then found out it can only be purchased if you go to GENCON.  I'm hoping that copies of this adventure end up for sale on Drive Thru RPG or Ebay or something.  It is eerily similar to what I was planning for my next campaign:


My plan - start the PC's out in Daggerford (a place I have NEVER used before in my ~20 years of running the realms), have them adventure in the lizard marsh and the orc infested hills, and then head to either Waterdeep/Undermountain, Dragonspear Castle (which I was planning to flesh out the ruins), or Neverwinter (where I planned for them to get involved in fending off a plague of small dragons).

The description of the Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle, from here:

Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle
Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle is a D&D Next preview and mini-campaign comprised of four thrilling adventures designed to advance characters from 1st level to 10th level. The over 200 page, perfect bound, soft cover book contains everything a Dungeon Master needs to run the adventures, including D&D Next game rules developed during the massive public playtest, monster statistics, spell descriptions, magic item descriptions, and background information on the coastal town of Daggerford, where the campaign is based.
Against the backdrop of the events of the Sundering, brave adventurers must protect the town of Daggerford against an insidious foreign threat while forging alliances, exploring dungeons, and battling monsters. The action moves from the Lizard Marsh to the orc-infested hills, finally culminating in a deadly altercation amid the crumbling ruins of the legendary Dragonspear Castle.

Wow! that is almost exactly what I was thinking.  I have no idea what this "Sundering" thing is, but it is probably like the spellplague and the Time of Troubles, another realms shattering plot monkey.  I would probably ignore the whole thing.

However, I got really excited that I could pick out little pieces of this adventure (convert the stats to S&W Whitebox) and use them for my game.  Maybe just some nice maps of the ruins of Dragonspear Castle!  There really aren't any on the net, so I was thinking I would have to whip something up if my PC's went in that direction.

Anyway, this is a total bummer!  Dear WOTC, I would really like to buy this...